Robert Kowalski: I had a very interesting experience, in terms of the difference between actual Pycnogenol and simply pine bark extract. It came from one of my readers. Who communicated with me via the internet, I got it in the e-mail. Turns out this fellow is an MD himself who didn't want to take prescription drugs. Raena Morgan: Who did not... Robert Kowalski: Did not he want to take the prescription drugs he was -- Raena Morgan: Does that happen with doctors? Robert Kowalski: Frequently. Raena Morgan: As you said in your book that you didn't want to take prescription drugs. Robert Kowalski: I know, oh absolutely not. I know too much about the drugs, do want to take those. Raena Morgan: That's good. Robert Kowalski: And I hear this all the time from physicians that they don't personally want to take the drugs. This fellow to make things even more interesting happens to be a Director of the research of one of the major pharmaceutical companies. Raena Morgan: That is ironic. Robert Kowalski: Very ironic, he had been following my cholesterol program for years because he didn't want to take those drugs, started noting an elevation of this blood pressure and didn't want to take that the hypertensive drugs, so he started taking the Pycnogenol and even though frankly a man in that kind of position makes a pretty good living. Raena Morgan: Right. Robert Kowalski: But everyone tries to save a dollar. So he experienced the drop in blood pressure from the Pycnogenol and he was delighted with that and in fact the e-mails that I've received were effusive, he also believes, then he thought I will save a few dollars and I will get the generic because in medicine a generic drug that a prescription would be as verses the trade name they are identical. So he thought well the why not get the generic pine bark extract. So he switched and what happened is blood pressure went back up and now he's is back to taking Pycnogenol. Raena Morgan: Very, good story.